What happens when one upsets the police-A true story

[steveconway]

Ivan Geffen was a prominent West Midlands solicitor.He acted for
several of the
Birmingham Six,exposing the corrupt detectives who 'invented'
confessions,in that matter(note the detectives were not prosecuted).He
mainly acted against the police and was very sucessfull.In June 2000 a
women who 'owed a favour' to the West Mids CID was persuaded to
complain that Mr Geffen had tried to abuse her 6 year old child.After
tipping of the press,police arrested Mr Geffen in a blaze of
publicity.Computers were seized from his home and offices,to allow
police to trawl through these machines and his records.The police
leaked a report that 'pornographic material' had been found on his
computers.The fact that the images were-in fact- innocent family
pictures,was never reported!

When charged,the police again tipped off the press,and were there in
force.However, in June 2002,police offered 'no evidence' at the
court,and Mr Geffen was acquitted of all charges.No action-of
course-against the police or the the compliant press in West
Midlands.No action was taken against the female informant either,fior
'wasting police time'or perjury-what a surprise.

The same tactics are being used in Dorset against a local solicitor
there,who regularly wins cases for his clients,against the police.In
that case the police have enjoined the girlfriend of one of their
'active participant' informers,who herself has an awfull criminal
record,to complain.Seems no one can stop this sort of thing,even if
they wanted to.

[Archibald]

Post by steveconway
The same tactics are being used in Dorset against a local solicitor
there,who regularly wins cases for his clients,against the police.In
that case the police have enjoined the girlfriend of one of their
'active participant' informers,who herself has an awfull criminal
record,to complain.

The guy behind http://www.dorsetpolice.com would be interested to hear
from you.

Archie

[Stan Mould]

Post by Archibald

Post by steveconway
The same tactics are being used in Dorset against a local

solicitor

Post by Archibald

Post by steveconway
there,who regularly wins cases for his clients,against the

police.In

Post by Archibald

Post by steveconway
that case the police have enjoined the girlfriend of one of their
'active participant' informers,who herself has an awfull criminal
record,to complain.

The guy behind http://www.dorsetpolice.com would be interested to hear
from you.
Archie

Here you go again, Husberk.

BTW, what does malliscious mean?

[Clough]

Post by steveconway
When charged,the police again tipped off the press,and were there in
force.However, in June 2002,police offered 'no evidence' at the
court,and Mr Geffen was acquitted of all charges.No action-of
course-against the police or the the compliant press in West
Midlands.No action was taken against the female informant either,fior
'wasting police time'or perjury-what a surprise.

Sexual abuse charges look like becoming a powerful weapon for the
police with which to intimidate and destroy people they take a dislike
to. Of course the person does not need to be guilty and the charges
can be completely fake, but they are still devastating weapons in the
armoury of the police for dealing with inconvenient people.

Clough

[steveconway]

Agreed.It makes you wonder why the police are 'never' then accused of
anything(perjury,malfeasance in public office etc) when these matters
are blown out in court.I guess no one cares!

Post by Clough

Post by steveconway
When charged,the police again tipped off the press,and were there in
force.However, in June 2002,police offered 'no evidence' at the
court,and Mr Geffen was acquitted of all charges.No action-of
course-against the police or the the compliant press in West
Midlands.No action was taken against the female informant either,fior
'wasting police time'or perjury-what a surprise.

Sexual abuse charges look like becoming a powerful weapon for the
police with which to intimidate and destroy people they take a dislike
to. Of course the person does not need to be guilty and the charges
can be completely fake, but they are still devastating weapons in the
armoury of the police for dealing with inconvenient people.
Clough

[Mike]

Post by steveconway
Agreed.It makes you wonder why the police are 'never' then accused of
anything(perjury,malfeasance in public office etc) when these matters
are blown out in court.I guess no one cares!

Consider who "investigates" allegations of police corruption.

[Clough]

Post by steveconway
Agreed.It makes you wonder why the police are 'never' then accused of
anything(perjury,malfeasance in public office etc) when these matters
are blown out in court.I guess no one cares!

It's best to try and avoid the police like poison. It seems like
staying silent can now be used against you, but it will be far better
to remain silent anyway than to say anything to the police only to
find it distorted and misrepresented beyond recognition when it is
read out in court.

It is a matter of self preservation never to say a single word to the
police unless a witness is present. In any case it is better never to
co-operate with them in any way.

Clough

[Alasdair Baxter]

Post by Clough
Sexual abuse charges look like becoming a powerful weapon for the
police with which to intimidate and destroy people they take a dislike
to. Of course the person does not need to be guilty and the charges
can be completely fake, but they are still devastating weapons in the
armoury of the police for dealing with inconvenient people.

It's not just the police. A schoolgirl or schoolboy could intimidate
and destroy teachers and others they take a dislike to by merely
complaining that "sir" sexually abused them. Sir is then sent to
Coventry and his life turned upside down while the matter is
investigated.
--

Alasdair Baxter, Nottingham, UK.Tel [phone]; Fax [phone]

"It's not what you say that matters but how you say it.
It's not what you do that matters but how you do it"

[Clough]

Post by Alasdair Baxter
It's not just the police. A schoolgirl or schoolboy could intimidate
and destroy teachers and others they take a dislike to by merely
complaining that "sir" sexually abused them. Sir is then sent to
Coventry and his life turned upside down while the matter is
investigated.

It amazes me that a man would be stupid enough to go into teaching or
any profession that involves contact with children. It is pretty
risky. As for extra curricular activities like running clubs or
scouting, that is just asking for trouble. Anyone who does that will
never be able to sleep easy again. Anytime, even 20 or 30 years down
the line and long after retirement, the knock at the door could come
and they could find themselves under arrest on charges of historical
abuse.

Just try proving your innocence against events alleged to have
happened 30 years ago. It just can't be done.

There is going to be a mass exodus of men from activities involving
children. And that will be a great loss to everybody.

Clough

[Alasdair Baxter]

Post by Clough
It amazes me that a man would be stupid enough to go into teaching or
any profession that involves contact with children. It is pretty
risky. As for extra curricular activities like running clubs or
scouting, that is just asking for trouble. Anyone who does that will
never be able to sleep easy again. Anytime, even 20 or 30 years down
the line and long after retirement, the knock at the door could come
and they could find themselves under arrest on charges of historical
abuse.

When did this paranoia about child sex abuse begin? About 20 years
ago, if my memory serves me right. I think Esther Rantzen has a lot
to answer for here. There was also a Maureen Davies of the Beacon
Foundation in North Wales who wrote a book about satanic child abuse
which became the standard text for all social workers.

Since this paranoia took hold countless families have been wrongly
accused of abuse and traumatised by the authorities.

Many of the teachers working today qualified well over 20 years ago
when teaching was a relatively safe (except from unruly pupils)
profession and the word of the child was not always taken as gospel.

I think the government is going to have problems recruiting sufficient
teachers in the current climate. The profession is relatively poorly
paid, the academic qualifications to get in are as hard as law,
accountancy etc. As Clough says, there is always the threat of false
accusation. Finally, teachers are the only profession that I know of
which has to put up with being verbally and physically assaulted by
its clients. Lawyers, accountants, dentists,doctors, can refuse to
have unruly clients but the teacher has to teach whatever child is put
in his class.


--

Alasdair Baxter, Nottingham, UK.Tel [phone]; Fax [phone]

"It's not what you say that matters but how you say it.
It's not what you do that matters but how you do it"

[PJ]

Post by Alasdair Baxter

Post by Clough
It amazes me that a man would be stupid enough to go into teaching or
any profession that involves contact with children. It is pretty
risky. As for extra curricular activities like running clubs or
scouting, that is just asking for trouble. Anyone who does that will
never be able to sleep easy again. Anytime, even 20 or 30 years down
the line and long after retirement, the knock at the door could come
and they could find themselves under arrest on charges of historical
abuse.

When did this paranoia about child sex abuse begin? About 20 years
ago, if my memory serves me right. I think Esther Rantzen has a lot
to answer for here. There was also a Maureen Davies of the Beacon
Foundation in North Wales who wrote a book about satanic child abuse
which became the standard text for all social workers.
Since this paranoia took hold countless families have been wrongly
accused of abuse and traumatised by the authorities.
Many of the teachers working today qualified well over 20 years ago
when teaching was a relatively safe (except from unruly pupils)
profession and the word of the child was not always taken as gospel.
I think the government is going to have problems recruiting sufficient
teachers in the current climate. The profession is relatively poorly
paid, the academic qualifications to get in are as hard as law,
accountancy etc. As Clough says, there is always the threat of false
accusation. Finally, teachers are the only profession that I know of
which has to put up with being verbally and physically assaulted by
its clients. Lawyers, accountants, dentists,doctors, can refuse to
have unruly clients but the teacher has to teach whatever child is put
in his class.
--
Alasdair Baxter, Nottingham, UK.Tel [phone]; Fax [phone]
"It's not what you say that matters but how you say it.
It's not what you do that matters but how you do it"

I would like to nominate you to the teachers pay review body. The verbal and
physical assaults are not only by clients but by their relatives. It is
ironic to teachers to read that four police officers were assaulted when
arresting a young person. That same young person was probably in a classroom
yesterday and will be again next week with a teacher who does not wear body
armour and carry mace and a baton.

PJ

[Clough]

Post by PJ
I would like to nominate you to the teachers pay review body. The verbal and
physical assaults are not only by clients but by their relatives. It is
ironic to teachers to read that four police officers were assaulted when
arresting a young person. That same young person was probably in a classroom
yesterday and will be again next week with a teacher who does not wear body
armour and carry mace and a baton.

Also said young person can at any time shout "sexual abuse" and the
teacher will be arrested, suspended, get his picture in the local
press under 'paedophile' headlines and run straight into a major
crisis.

If, after a year of living under the threat of prosecution, maybe
having a brick or two thrown through the living room window as well,
the charges are dropped or the teacher is found not guilty, his career
is in ruins, his reputation is destroyed and maybe his wife has filed
for divorce.

Yes, take up teaching young man, it is a safe and rewarding
profession.

Clough

[Santosh]

Post by PJ

Post by Clough
It amazes me that a man would be stupid enough to go into teaching or
any profession that involves contact with children. It is pretty
risky. As for extra curricular activities like running clubs or
scouting, that is just asking for trouble.

I would like to nominate you to the teachers pay review body. The verbal and
physical assaults are not only by clients but by their relatives. It is
ironic to teachers to read that four police officers were assaulted when
arresting a young person. That same young person was probably in a classroom
yesterday and will be again next week with a teacher who does not wear body
armour and carry mace and a baton.

I would like to refer you to your own unions, being at the forefront of
the "no child can lie" nonsense. Teachers, Social Workers and their ilk
deserve all they get!

As for being a Scout Leader, you have, preferably, to be a woman (male
or female will do).

[Leon Macfayden]

Post by steveconway
Ivan Geffen was a prominent West Midlands solicitor.He acted for
several of the
Birmingham Six,exposing the corrupt detectives who 'invented'
confessions,in that matter(note the detectives were not prosecuted).He
mainly acted against the police and was very sucessfull.In June 2000 a
women who 'owed a favour' to the West Mids CID was persuaded to
complain that Mr Geffen had tried to abuse her 6 year old child.After
tipping of the press,police arrested Mr Geffen in a blaze of
publicity.Computers were seized from his home and offices,to allow
police to trawl through these machines and his records.The police
leaked a report that 'pornographic material' had been found on his
computers.The fact that the images were-in fact- innocent family
pictures,was never reported!
When charged,the police again tipped off the press,and were there in
force.However, in June 2002,police offered 'no evidence' at the
court,and Mr Geffen was acquitted of all charges.No action-of
course-against the police or the the compliant press in West
Midlands.No action was taken against the female informant either,fior
'wasting police time'or perjury-what a surprise.
The same tactics are being used in Dorset against a local solicitor
there,who regularly wins cases for his clients,against the police.In
that case the police have enjoined the girlfriend of one of their
'active participant' informers,who herself has an awfull criminal
record,to complain.Seems no one can stop this sort of thing,even if
they wanted to

Do you have any supporting evidence for this, or may they go ahead and sue
you straight away?

[steveconway]

I do have the evidence and 'they' may sue me if 'they' wish.There are
also Court records,recording this sad,and vindictive,tale of woe!!

Post by Leon Macfayden

Post by steveconway
Ivan Geffen was a prominent West Midlands solicitor.He acted for
several of the
Birmingham Six,exposing the corrupt detectives who 'invented'
confessions,in that matter(note the detectives were not prosecuted).He
mainly acted against the police and was very sucessfull.In June 2000 a
women who 'owed a favour' to the West Mids CID was persuaded to
complain that Mr Geffen had tried to abuse her 6 year old child.After
tipping of the press,police arrested Mr Geffen in a blaze of
publicity.Computers were seized from his home and offices,to allow
police to trawl through these machines and his records.The police
leaked a report that 'pornographic material' had been found on his
computers.The fact that the images were-in fact- innocent family
pictures,was never reported!
When charged,the police again tipped off the press,and were there in
force.However, in June 2002,police offered 'no evidence' at the
court,and Mr Geffen was acquitted of all charges.No action-of
course-against the police or the the compliant press in West
Midlands.No action was taken against the female informant either,fior
'wasting police time'or perjury-what a surprise.
The same tactics are being used in Dorset against a local solicitor
there,who regularly wins cases for his clients,against the police.In
that case the police have enjoined the girlfriend of one of their
'active participant' informers,who herself has an awfull criminal
record,to complain.Seems no one can stop this sort of thing,even if
they wanted to

Do you have any supporting evidence for this, or may they go ahead and sue
you straight away?

[michael]

Post by Leon Macfayden

Post by steveconway
Ivan Geffen was a prominent West Midlands solicitor.He acted for
several of the
Birmingham Six,exposing the corrupt detectives who 'invented'
confessions,in that matter(note the detectives were not prosecuted).He
mainly acted against the police and was very sucessfull.In June 2000 a
women who 'owed a favour' to the West Mids CID was persuaded to
complain that Mr Geffen had tried to abuse her 6 year old child.After
tipping of the press,police arrested Mr Geffen in a blaze of
publicity.Computers were seized from his home and offices,to allow
police to trawl through these machines and his records.The police
leaked a report that 'pornographic material' had been found on his
computers.The fact that the images were-in fact- innocent family
pictures,was never reported!
When charged,the police again tipped off the press,and were there in
force.However, in June 2002,police offered 'no evidence' at the
court,and Mr Geffen was acquitted of all charges.No action-of
course-against the police or the the compliant press in West
Midlands.No action was taken against the female informant either,fior
'wasting police time'or perjury-what a surprise.
The same tactics are being used in Dorset against a local solicitor
there,who regularly wins cases for his clients,against the police.In
that case the police have enjoined the girlfriend of one of their
'active participant' informers,who herself has an awfull criminal
record,to complain.Seems no one can stop this sort of thing,even if
they wanted to

Do you have any supporting evidence for this, or may they go ahead and sue
you straight away?

oh dear.

[b***@hotmail.co.uk]

It might be worth considering that the people who came forward to report him for abuses against them may have been telling the truth. I am not one of the women in the original case but my family did know Mr Geffen and I can quite clearly remember at least one incident before the age of ten, in the mid to late seventies, where his actions towards me was inappropriate and deliberately so.

While there may be corruption within the law and the police-force, don't let your desire to prove it dismiss the wrong doings of high profile people like Mr Geffen.

These cases did not result in a conviction because teh prosecution was unable to present enough evidence to secure one, it does not mean that the abuse did not happen.

[f***@hotmail.com]

You sick horrible disgrace of a man!
My mother owed no one nothing!! Especially not CID!
Makes me sick to read all there comments 21 years later and there’s people like all of you! not having a clue what really happen but stand and write false statements like you were there! WAS YOU THERE WHEN THE MAN HAD IS HAND ON MY VAGINA?! NO YOU WERE NOT! Was you there from that day on when I was scared of Men with white hair! NO! Or felt disgusting growing up remembering what happen that day and what I had to go thought! How dare you just just make up so much bull shit on something you no nothing about! To the world and for that 6 year old girl to grow up and read! You don’t just forget about it I live with it for the rest of my life! Knowing a dirty old man touched me!!!!!! YOU ARE AS BAD AS THE MAN HIM SELF! Sick deluded animal!

[m***@gmail.com]

I really do wish this was a case of the police not liking ivan geffen but unfortunately for me and many others it's not I was 6 years old when he decided it was OK to put his hands down my pants and fondle me more then once. he told me that if I ever told anyone I'd be taken away from my parents now as a 6 year old I believed him I didn't tell a soul until I was 12-13 and tbf i wish I never told anyone because people like u just call us liars when it's us he hurt that have the nightmares he spent his last years as a free man where as us we'll never be free of what he did